Creo que el filial tiene una buena plantilla pero la podía tener mejor si hubiese gestionado mejor las bajas, sobre todo en defensa: Campabadal (Wigan) y Rossell (Kansas) y que no tiene suficientes recambios ahoramismo en plantilla y en la delantera no tenemos un goleador claro.

Creo que el sistema debería de ser el mismo y que se necesite un Mister que corrija los fallos de sus futbolistas y los sepa mejorar cosa que con Eusebio no esta pasando.

Tenemos plantilla para no pasar problemas para permanecer otra temporada más en 2ª pero para ello Eusebio tiene que poner a los mejores.

Tengo ganas de ver a las nuevas incorporaciones sobre todo a los dos portugueses (Lé y Cá) y de lo que puede ser capaz de hacer Araujo.

También hay que empezar a dar confianza a los juveniles y estar muy atento a su evolución. (Grimaldo y Dongou).

Clarividente post, gracias.

Desde el momento en el que tenemos que aclarar cual es el objetivo del segundo equipo, algo se está haciendo mal.

Y al respecto ya que se confirma que uno, quizá el principal objetivo, es formar jugadores para el primer equipo, pongo una pregunta encima de la mesa: ¿es tan beneficioso tener al equipo en Segunda División?

Entiendo que el carácter competitivo de Segunda siempre será más productivo a la hora de adaptarse más rapidamente a la exigencia competitiva en primer nivel, pero es verdad que también te deja menos margen a nivel formativo del jugador. De hecho, desde que el equipo está en segunda, se ha seguido una política de mezclar jugadores con claro potencial de primer equipo, con jugadores más veteranos que te dan ese plus competitivo y de experiencia necesario en segunda división.

Ya digo, no lo tengo tan claro…

@ Papito

Yo creo que es mejor competir con el filial en Segunda A que en Segunda B para intentar demostrar el fútbol que llevan en una competición tan dura pero es verdad que necesitarían más años en el filial y no precipitarse al subirlos al primer equipo.

@ Sub 21

Viendo ayer a la seleccion y a los extremos (Tello y Deulofeu), creo que tiene más y mejor proyección para el primer equipo Deulofeu que Tello ya que tiene más variedad de regates en 1×1 y mejor golpeo de balón pero hay que tener paciencia con él ya que sabe que su fútbol es superior al resto de compañeros y rivales pero con eso solo no se llega a la élite del fútbol sino que también hay que trabajar en defensa y esforzarse por presionar balones porque en un equipo de fútbol las individualidades es un plus pero lo principal es el juego en equipo y eso es lo que tiene que aprender todavía el bueno de Deulofeu.

Papito
lo que no es beneficioso es Eusebio. Desde cachorros, en la masia se aprende y se compite. Mucho y con mucha presión eh.

El tema «bajas» a cortas edades es crudísimo y con excepciones contadas no tiembla la mano para descartar jugadores (niños) porque hay muchos otros de igual nivel esperando oportunidad

la seguna no es facil,nunca sabe con que jugadores puede contar aunque esten sanos,tiene que lidiar con las prisas de representantes y papis esto lo tiene en contra.
A favor jugadores formados tecnicamente,fichajes de algun veterano que debe dar consistencia y por ultimo el respado del club que tendra sus razones para hacerlo.
De todas formas que los chicos sufran a eusebio igual no esta mal puede que desde el club piensen lo mismo.»fijaos que os espera en el 99% de los casos fuera del club si teneis urgencias……uuuuuhhhhhhh»

Parto de la base que en el FC Barcelona, las categorías ‘profesionales’ comienzan a partir del Juvenil A. Por tanto tendríamos a dicho Juvenil, Barça B y a la primera plantilla como los 3 equipos profesionales.

Esto quiere decir que por encima de todo, en ellos, la prioridad es COMPETIR.

En el Barça B se han dado decisiones algo extrañas sobre todo tras la llegada de Eusebio y la nueva junta. En cuanto a fichajes sobre todo y también las bajas.

No conozco directa o indirectamente a ningún culé que valore positivamente la dirección de Eusebio al frente del filial. Es curioso cómo un técnico es capaz de generar tanta unanimidad en un sector tan amplio y diverso. No creo que sea casualidad.

El Barça B la temporada pasada mostraba en muchos partidos una apatía considerable, nada que ver a lo que estábamos acostumbrados en etapas anteriores.

La Liga Adelante es de las más exigentes en Europa, una competición muy muy complicada para ser una Segunda División. Por ello competir no es sencillo, y más con jugadores de poca experiencia y corto recorrido aún en estas liedes. Pero no es una excusa, es simplemente el contexto.

Pero aunque la prioridad sea COMPETIR (luchar por mantener la Segunda División en el caso del filial), no debemos olvidar que el B es el escenario más cercano para muchos de los canteranos que están llamados a gobernar el primer equipo en el futuro.

En la formación de un canterano va implícita la competición, y más en un club como el Barça, acostumbrado a jugar para ganar y al que se le exigen títulos, sea cual sea la categoría. Ya es cuestión de los técnicos cómo trabajar durante el proceso y determinar qué priorizar y cómo según la edad.

Al final, no todos podrán llegar al primer equipo. Pero se habrán formado como futbolistas y personas, aprendiendo a respetar el juego y competir.

En esencia quiero decir que competir es al fin y al cabo una consecuencia natural y necesaria de la formación.

Muy buen post, Marc. Sólo añadiré un par de cositas porque ya lo has dicho tú todo. ^^

Yo creo que hay que hacer hincapié en la necesidad de ganar como parte de la formación. Siempre pensando en la formación. Tito, cuando el filial estaba en Tercera, decía que «lo importante no es ganar, pero tengo que tener claro que somos el Barça y hay que ganar. Y tenemos que hacerlo jugando de una manera determinada«. El problema llega cuando no existe una manera determinada de jugar o competir. A este equipo se le ha visto encerrarse atrás hasta con 9 jugadores en campo propio y Deulofeu arriba como única referencia. Eso no es el Barça ni debería serlo. Y menos aún en un filial.

Ya es lo suficientemente difícil motivar a un equipo «B» como para encima dedicarte a dar según que órdenes con marcador en contra o hacer según qué cambios. Eusebio es un pésimo motivador y tiene una mentalidad perdedora escandalosa. ¿Cuántas veces lo hemos escuchado decir que lo primordial es la permanencia? Más de las que deberíamos.

Sin ir más lejos; Luis Enrique. No, no es un entrenador brillante ni tiene unos recursos tácticos que asombren, pero desde el día uno supo motivar a los chavales. Primero con el ascenso (conseguido) y el siguiente año alentándoles a ser el mejor filial de la historia azulgrana (conseguido también).
ESO es el Barça B y eso tiene que ser el Barça B. Jugadores que se forman a partir de la exigencia y el juego. Si pides la permanencia, estás infravalorando a tus jugadores. Lucho no tuvo mejores plantillas que Eusebio ni más facilidades a la hora de hacer fichajes externos.

Como comentas, es lógico que quiera disponer de toda su plantilla, pero no tiene que olvidar que en este caso no disponer de todos su futbolistas es algo positivo. Si te faltan los Montoya, Tello, Bartra y Dos Santos -por el año pasado- o Sergi Roberto -por este- tienes que pensar que se están formando en el primer equipo, teniendo oportunidades allá arriba y que eso es un éxito. No puedes tomarte las bajas por convocatoria de Pep/Tito como una desgracia para tu equipo B.

Por último, un detalle: en 2008 se cambió el nombre a las categorías inferiores del Barça y ya no es «fútbol base», es «fútbol formativo«. Creo que eso deja bastante claro de qué va esto.

Y ya os dejo. Enhorabuena a todos por el blog, chicos; os leo a diario aunque no deje mis parrafadas por aquí. ^^

Bienvenida Sita Aguilera!
vaya referencias buenas las tuyas, a ver si te haces una fija por el rondo

Eusebio no es malo por perfil que también, es limitado en conocimientos y preparacaión. Ya me lo comentó alguien que trabajo cerca de él antes de ir al Celta de Vigo. Y sus referencias en Vigo ya son de chiste.

Y no es un «no me gusta» como dije y digo con Tello. Es un «no vale» como dije y digo con Keirrison

A mí el Celta de Eusebio no me parecía tan horrible, a ver que dice el «celtiña» de Some…^^

Quizá estoy partiendo de un error de base; formar y competir deben ir de la mano, sobre todo en un club como el Barça. Lo que entonces no me encaja tanto es la necesidad de fichar «experiencia» para sobrevivir en Segunda. A no ser que sea positivo convivir con gente con más experiencia que tú, porque de esa manera te acostumbras al ambiente que tendrás si subes al primer equipo.

Respecto a tener a Eusebio como prueba de «es lo que te espera ahí fuera» me recuerda a lo que alguna vez comenté de que Eusebio era como una prueba de «Humor Amarillo», en plan que si la pasas tienes como premio el primer equipo, pero mientras tanto te parece una broma pesada.
Creo que no es casualidad las malísimas temporadas de Sergi Roberto y Bartra el año pasado en el B y hoy todo el mundo ve claro que son futuribles, que luego veremos como evolucionan, del primer equipo.

Sita, como dice Trouro, serían tan bienvenidos tus comentarios por aquí…

La prioridad está clara, debe ser la formación de los futbolistas. Incluso algunos fichajes de +24 años, deben estar orientados a esto. No solo a dotar de experiencia al filial, sino a restar cierta presión a los jugadores mas jóvenes que se están formando no solo futbolísticamente, sino mentalmente.

De hecho la planificación de los filiales, orientada en los 3 niveles formativos que ya tiene explicado Perarnau nos muestran que el objectivo prioritario es la formación de chavales, educados en un idioma que los haga ser capaces de saltar al primer equipo. Por eso también considero que esquemas de juego, mecanismos y automatismos de juego y prácticas de entrenamiento (siempre que sean posibles, teniendo en cuenta la diferencia de calendario, el menor número de partidos y edades de los chicos) deben coincidir con el primer equipo.

Papito

Yo creo que es mas beneficioso, opino como Cocú. El salto ya no solo competitivo, sino con respecto al primer equipo es mucho menor. La competición es infinitamente mas real que una 2ªB que en España es semi profesional. Y los fichajes que comentamos no están orientados nunca a tapar a un jugador potencial del primer equipo. Además el Barça B lleva 2 años que cambió su política de fichajes en busca de «Pedros». Fichar jugadores semihechos para el B y reeducarlos para que estén listos para subir al Barça.

Papito Trouro

Eusebio en el Celta hizo cosas buenas y malas. La buena es que implantó una filosofía futbolística y una apuesta por la cantera que sirvieron de base para luego el trabajo de Herrera. La mala es que como dice Sita es un perdedor, no era un ganador ni un motivador, ni un perro que fuese a por todas. Y en 2ª se lo comían vivo porque no es el mismo escenario que en primera. No puedes plantear un partido al toque siendo indolente porque te devoran, y así casi baja a 2ª b. Herrera, que sabe de que va esto y estuvo con Benítez, dotó al equipo de mas agresividad, manteniendo el fútbol de toque pero sin ser inocente, y los resultados, sobre todo fuera de casa fueron una cosa escandalosa en lo distinto.

Es que a ver, Eusebio es lo que es. Es por decirlo así, la personificación de lo malo de los 2 ultimos años de Rijkaard. Indolencia, dejarse llevar, conformismo. A mi que fichase por el primer equipo me parece una cuestión de amiguismo pura y dura que es lo que además le hace mantenerse un segundo año.

SitAguilera

Aprovechando que andas por aquí, no crees que el fútbol formativo como se llama ahora, aparte de jugadores, también debería formar entrenadores? Y mas viendo el sello y las decisiones tomadas por el Barça que lo están volviendo en un club muy endogámico. Eusebio OUT Oscar IN, para mi debio haber sido eso este año.

A mi, que un hombre que recomendó el fichaje del central Mario, sea hoy el guardián de nuestro talento mas pubertero me pone cuanto menos, nervioso.

Primero que nada: a mí tampoco me gusta Eusebio para nada, así que me uno a la larga lista de los detractores.

Es muy importante competir, si te da igual jugar en Segunda A, que en Segunda B, acabas en Tercera, puedes entrar en un círculo vicioso, en una espiral de fracasos, entrar en barrena, y acabar en el hoyo, que se lo pregunten al equipo de mis amores, el FC Andorra, que alguna vez llegó casi a Segunda, y que ahora juega en Segunda, pero en la Segunda Regional de Cataluña. Tienes que competir siempre, si no… Adiós, muy buenas…

Se ha pensado siempre en el filial como el último eslabón para la formación de los chavales, y está bien, pero yo quiero hacer una pregunta que me viene a la cabeza: no sería también una buena opción para formar entrenadores? La opción de ex-jugadores del Barcelona que quieren foguearse, coger experiencia como entrenadores, me parece fantástica, unas veces funcionará bien, otras no tan bien (otras será un desastre como está ocurriendo ahora), pero después del caso Pep, no estaría mal pensar en el filial como una opción para formar entrenadores…
(Yo le hubiera dado la oportunidad a Oscar antes que Eusebio, pero bueno…)
Y la cuestión es que el B no ha sido un buen ascensor de entrenadores, no recuerdo a un entrenador, aparte de Pep, que haya entrenado al B y que haya tenido la oportunidad de subir al A… Creo que sólo Pep (a Juande Ramos no lo cuento porque sí entrenó al Madrid, pero nunca al primer equipo del Barcelona)…

Y claro, el problema es que debes competir, permanecer en Segunda, y en ocasiones se prefiere caer en la tentación de darle la oportunidad a un técnico con más experiencia que a uno de las divisiones inferiores, o a técnicos sin experiencia, pero con talento… Imaginaros que no se le hubiera dado la oportunidad a Guardiola de entrenar al B, para sustituir al eterno Quique Costas… No digo más…

O bueno sí, creo que viene al pelo una frase de Costas cuando iba a entrenar al filiar en su tercera etapa: «Alexanko piensa que lo importante es la formación, pero yo creo que no hay mejor manera de formar que ganando» Pues eso…

Antonio
Cantera de entrenadores me gusta. Con matices. No solo x ser exjugadores, ni solamente xa exjugadores.

@Trouro

Recién leo el comentario de Cerdido en el que opinamos de la misma forma, yo acabo de leer su comentario porque estaba, como suelo hacer, muy ocupado en otras cosas (siempre que me meto en internet hago cuatro cosas a la vez). Pero sí, tu matiz es correcto: no sólo para ex jugadores del Barcelona, a fin de evitar lo que bien ha señalado Cerdido: que nos estamos convirtiendo en un club endogámico.

Primer XI de Van Gaal con Holanda

Holanda-Turquía.

Kruul-Janmaat,Heitinga, Martins Indi, Willems, Clasie, Snejder, Strootman, Narsingh, Van Persie, Robben.

Que este hombre iba a apostar pro Strootman estaba claro^^. Luego me paso y comento disposición y detallitos, a ver que ganas tiene Louis de hacer algo chulo.

Al hilo de lo que se comenta por aquí, una cosa está clara: competir va de la mano de formar. Pero lo primero está dentro de lo que se considera formación. ¿Qué se enseña sino a ganar a los chavales? Pero lo que importa es enseñar la manera, que ganar sea la consecuencia, no la causa. O al menos, es lo que yo entiendo de la esencia del fútbol formativo.

@entrenadores

Esta idea la estuve pensando un tiempo y me parece muy válida. Si bien los jugadores que tenemos preservan nuestro modelo, ¿por qué los entrenadores no pueden preservar la metodología? Ahora bien, estoy a favor de la iniciativa pero con unas ciertas condiciones. Hay entrenadores del fútbol formativo– García Pimienta, antes Álex García– que podrían entrenar perfectamente el filial y tienen potencial, en mi opinión, para entrenar algún día al primer equipo.

A ambos les veo más aptitudes que el mismo Oscar, Vinyals y ya no digamos de Eusbio. Llevan muchos años en esto, conocen a los jugadores, conocen el modelo y conocen la casa. Por poner un ejemplo, pocos equipos me impactaron más que aquel Cadete A de García Pimienta. Al hecho de que se juntó una generación de futbolistas espléndida (Samper, Grimaldo, Sandro, Toral, Bellerín…) el equipo jugó a un fútbol de un nivel extraordinariamente superior. Ningún rival les hizo prácticamente cosquillas porque ese equipo jugaba a algo que alcanzaba cotas mayores.

si estoy de acuerdo eusebio no es rinus michels pero tambien me acuerdo de juande ramos hundir al equipo en 2b y a juande se le tiene como un napoleon del banquillo.
la cosa esta asi :
Tienes que encontrar un tio de la casa que no le importe que le mangoneen la plantilla,que se complemente con el del lrimer equipo pero que no haga tambien que le haga sombra,que juegue como el primer equipo pero sin tener esos jugadores y que no tenga visos de volar a la primera oferta que le hagan si triunfa.

Yo creo que no existe ese entrenador,ojala le habria

No me pasé antes por trabajo, lo siento.

Lo de Holanda de Van Gaal lo que se preveía. Vuelta al 4-3-3, destierra el cemento del centro del campo apostando por Strootman y Clasie que es base de jugada. A Snejder lo manda al interior izquierdo para orientarlo a su golpeo y así tener mas incidencia… y Robben en la zurda, lo que le da mas riqueza al propio jugador y al equipo. Veremos si Robben acepta este nuevo rol, es interesante. Además Krul entro por Sketelemburg. Veremos si hay cambio de portería.

Presión y bastante dinamismo, a parte de gusto por el balón y caracter asociativo. Vamos, las señas de Holanda de siempre. Eso si, tiene 2 años para intentar que los nuevos valores sepan rendir a máximo nivel de exigencia. La defensa es muy blandita y tiene 2 chavales muy jóvenes, mas Clasie y Strootman delante… mucho que trabajar para Louis.

Indalecio

Ya no es que tenga que cumplir esos requisitos. Pero desde que el Barça b baja a 3ª se producen una serie de cambios, una profesionalización en la cantera por así decirlo. FdePrimera y Sita sabrán de esto mas que yo. Además se traduce en un nuevo modelo y perfil de entrenador. Primero con Pep y luego con Luis Enrique. Directamente ahí Eusebio es que no casa, y tras su primer año en el que ningún jugador, ninguno, evolucionó con él… es cuanto menos preocupante.

http://www.martiperarnau.com/2012/09/filiales-suenos-rotos/

Se confirma que Neymar se está convirtiendo en otro Robinho. Como ya he dicho, si se queda otro año en Brasil se convertirá en un jugador mediocre.
Ha tirado la oportunidad de convertirse en un gran jugador.

NO A NEYMAR

Sobre la endogamia del Club.

Cuando muchos vieron un goce especial en presentar un 11 exclusivamente formado por futbolistas de la casa (que obviamente se puede) el discurso de Pep siempre iba por otro lado a sabiendas de que la introducción de adn de fuera nos hace más fuertes y nos vacuna de hemofilia.

Bienvenido Song estos fichajes nos dan alternativas y nos hacen más fuertes. Bienvenida la política del club de fichar para el B a chicos que suman calidad pero que vienen de modelos de futbol muy diferentes.

Saturno

Que apocalíptico hombre, Neymar se parece muy poquito a Robinho ^^

Duzemil

Mas que incorporar «ADN de fuera» creo que simplemente era buscar fuera lo que no tienes en casa, que en el caso el Barça suelen ser músculos y centímetros (en esta época, se entiende). La verdad es que Pep cada año fue renunciando mas a lo de fuera, el año del triplete con Eto’o, Touré o Keita de titulares/importantes la verdad es que es muy poco Pep visto la evolución posterior.

Yo si te soy sincero creía que contra el Espanyol en su último partido en casa iba a ir con todo canteranos.

Creo que el objetivo del barça b es formar, peró competir también es una manera de formar.
Yo tengo la sensación que el barça B ni forma ni compite, los jugadores se han estancado, algunos no tienen ni oportunidades,pero además el equipo no es competitivo, Armando pasó por encima de Sergi Gómez y Oriol Rossell sin demostrar ser mejor. Lobato esta jugando de interior títular algunos partidos, mientras otros interiores no tienen oportunidades. Es Lobato mejor interior que Espinosa?.
Otra cosa que no entiendo de la gestión del barça B, es la cantidad de jugadores que hay en proporción al tiempo que juegan, Han subido muchos jugadores del juvenil, hemos fichado, pero tendran oportunidades todos los jugadores?
El año pasado hubo jugadores marginados, como Gustavo Ledes y Oriol Rossell. Este año la plantilla es más amplia y mejor, pero sigo teniendo dudas de como se van administrar estos minutos, no entiendo que los jugadores suban al barça B para estar sentadosen la grada… no será mejor que sigan jugando en el juvenil? O que los cedamos a otros equipos que tienen una ideologia parecida a la nuestra como el Sabadell?
Por último quiero remarcarla obsesión de jugar con falso 9, jugar con falso 9 requiere 2 cosas en un jugador:
1. El jugador ha de tener la inteligencia para saber cuando ha de ir ha recibir y cuando ha de quedar-se atrás. Para eso se necesita que el jugador sepa leer muy bien el juego o tenga experiencia en esa posición.
2. El jugador ha de tener una capacidad asociativa alta, ser rápido no sólo de piernas si no mentalmente. Además de tener capacidad para crear superioridades.
No entiendo que siempre juguemos con falso 9, y menos si ese falso 9 se llama Kiko femenia o Araujo.En el caso de Lobato o Rafinha lo entiendo más pero sigue sin convencerme y más aún si tenemos un 9 en el b anquillo como Dongou.

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